European regulators clear 737 MAX to return to service

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 10/19/2020 at 12:33 • Filed to: Planelopnik, 737 Max

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Europe’s top aviation regulator said he’s satisfied that changes to Boeing Co.’s 737 Max have made the plane safe enough to return to the region’s skies before 2020 is out, even as a further upgrade his agency demanded won’t be ready for up to two years.

“Safe enough.”  Now that’s a ringing endorsement. American Airlines plans to put their MAXs into service in December.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-10-16/boeing-max-declared-safe-to-fly-by-europe-s-aviation-regulator

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:38

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Safe enough is good enough - Boeing

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:40

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No more dangerous than an Allegiant Mad Dog I bet

promoted by the color red > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:41

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I don’t know if I’m willing to trust the Erusean Air and Space Administration. I have a hard enough time dealing with their Su-30SM squadron.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:41

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“If it says Boeing, the BS is  flowing...”

Tripper > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:41

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As if I wasn’t already a ll set with flying for the foreseeable future.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/19/2020 at 12:42

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“It’s the best the summer intern could do in the 6 weeks available, working remotely from Mumbai...”

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:46

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what service?

tourism is dead for the foreseeable future

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 12:46

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Make America’s skies great again, bring back the 200.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 10/19/2020 at 12:48

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We used to say “good enough for government work”. I think NASA took that to heart.

ttyymmnn > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/19/2020 at 12:57

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I learned that saying from my father-in-law who was a colonel in the Marine Corps. 

ranwhenparked > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 10/19/2020 at 12:58

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Hey, Curacao is allowing in tourists from, like, 6% of the US. 

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > ranwhenparked 10/19/2020 at 12:59

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lol... for now

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 10/19/2020 at 13:08

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Aren’t they all Hairbus now? I flew them, finally, again the other day and thought it was A32x...

In fact, with Delta finally entering the 21st century aren’t all the Mad Dogs finally put down?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 10/19/2020 at 13:09

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Heh.  I was just trying to book a rental car for a trip this week... Jeeez, all the rental car offices in that vicinity are “Closed”.

For Sweden > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/19/2020 at 13:14

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You are right; they retired the last Mad Dog last month.

Hawaiian and Delta fly the Boeing 717. The Detroit Pistons own a Mad Dog

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 13:23

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Just in time for we don’t need them any more.

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/19/2020 at 13:31

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I use that one a lot.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 13:33

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I guess we’ll have to trust in AA’s well-developed sense of avarice and self preservation. If they are willing to fly these again, they must think they aren’t risking megalawsuits that much. Because at this point, if they did crash one with their livery on it, the penalties would be on a monstrous scale.

rctothefuture > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 13:43

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Having flown on one before they shut down, I wonder if people are even going to know what plane they are flying on. I don’t exactly see the big 3 putting giant “737 MAX” stickers on the planes or advertising when you book.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > For Sweden 10/19/2020 at 13:53

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I have a love-hate thing with ‘em. My last consulting gig was based at BWI in the DC area... thus forcing me to fly DL (who I hate with a passion) once in awhile. With all the mechanicals and flight delays I eventually noticed the row of Mad Dogs lined up on the ramp over by the FedEx facility— usually 8 or 10— and finally found out, via cajoling and online research, that the DL plan was basically to keep a bunch of spares around at high-volume non-DL-hubs to fill in for the inevitable mechanical failures.

Normally, for a well-run  airline, this would be financial suicide... but because the Mad Dogs had virtually zero commercial value DL could afford to keep them around like I keep spare McDonald’s straws in the console of my A8.

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 10/19/2020 at 13:56

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IF the recertification process was done correctly, this SHOULD be the safest airplane in the sky. Sully says it’s safe enough, but still needs work.

“People are going to fly on it and I will probably be one of them,” he added. “The updated MAX will probably be as safe as the (previous model) 737 NG when they are done with it. But it’s not as good as it should be.”

In an interview with the Seattle Times , Sully says that while the MAX computers will now factor in both AOA sensors, it still needs a third synthetic system just to be sure. The 787 has such a system, but Boeing deemed it too expensive to add to the MAX. As it is, if one of the AOA sensors is kaput, the plane won’t know which one it is. Boeing plans to add the synthetic AOA to the MAX, but won’t be done for at least two years.

Sully also thinks that there needs to be some work done to lessen the overload of alarms in the cockpit. There also needs to be a way for the pilot to turn off the stick shaker. All of that just causes more confusion and distraction in the cockpit while the crew is trying to work a problem.

ttyymmnn > rctothefuture 10/19/2020 at 14:02

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For that reason, Boeing has changed the branding and dropped the “MAX” from the name. They will just be 737-8, 737-9, etc. So we can imagine the following conversation:

Passenger: Is this a 737 MAX?
Gate Agent: No, this is a 737-9.
Passenger: Oh, good. I don’t want to fly on a MAX.

While this seems dodgy, and it probably is at least a little bit, it does bring it in line with the branding of the 787. Ryanair, who will likely be the first company to stuff the MAX to the gills with passengers and fly them on the day the ban is lifted, has already changed the name on their jets.

haveacarortwoorthree2 > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 14:05

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Boeing should consult my wife. She turned off the stick shaker years ago.

BahamaTodd > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/19/2020 at 14:08

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Bahamas Air was flying them up until about 8 years ago. C6-BFM (seen below) was scrapped in 2012 after 31 years of service. I’m from there and flew on it several times.

Chariotoflove > haveacarortwoorthree2 10/19/2020 at 14:08

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Hiyo!

ttyymmnn > haveacarortwoorthree2 10/19/2020 at 14:10

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Now that’s the funniest thing I’ve seen today. Thanks, I needed a laugh. 

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 14:11

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As an aside, not too many people become known by a single name throughout society, a name that everyone instantly recognize s. Prince, Madonna, Elvis, Ali,  Sully... Bet he never thought he’d be one of those.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > BahamaTodd 10/19/2020 at 14:13

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I’m pretty sure the jet I flew on in Hawaii was a 737-200. It was frightfully worn.

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 10/19/2020 at 14:18

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Bet he never thought he’d be landing an Airbus in a river, either.

They keep calling it the “Miracle on the Hudson.” I’m not so sure. It was an experienced and skilled crew who worked together, it was a well-made aircraft, it was trained and efficient air traffic controllers. It was civilian boaters who responded to the scene immediately.  A lot of factors came together to create the best possible outcome. It’s like the old saying, “The more prepared you are, the more luck you will have.”

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 14:26

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For sure. Seldom is one person THE hero is a situation, but he can be one of the heroes.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 14:37

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Normally systems like the shaker/pusher can be disabled by pulling the breaker. But if there’s more than one system on a breaker that might be problematic. 

ttyymmnn > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 10/19/2020 at 14:45

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Probably not the first thing you think of when you’re fighting an airplane that is actively trying to kill you while your super short time FO is fumbling with the o wner’s manual.

ranwhenparked > rctothefuture 10/19/2020 at 14:47

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There were reports of passengers on 737 Classics and 737 Next Generations freaking out after they realized they were on a 737, not realizing the difference between models. And also because the NG and Max use the same emergency procedure cards, due to identical emergency exit locations - which are clearly printed with both model names at the top of the page. People have no clue. Boeing could rebrand the Max the “SkyBus S700 " and most passengers would assume it was some brand new, state of the art, European job.

Oh, wait, that might be an idea, gradually rebrand all of Boeing Commercial Airplanes to something less recognizable. Like that British department store chain that put fake Japanese- sounding names on their UK-assembled electronics.

ranwhenparked > BahamaTodd 10/19/2020 at 14:50

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A few regional Canadian airlines have them, since the smaller diameter turbojets are resistant enough to foreign object damage to allow operations on gravel runways, something no newer 737 variant can do.

ttyymmnn > ranwhenparked 10/19/2020 at 15:02

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I still think that the vast majority of passengers don’t pay any attention to what sort of airplane they are on, and are only aware enough to ask when it’s in the news. The return to service will make some headlines, and some passengers may ask, but most will forget about it shortly and it will be BAU.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 10/19/2020 at 15:41

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In fact, with Delta finally entering the 21st century aren’t all the Mad Dogs finally put down?

Yep, they’re S pam cans now. And the Pratt JT8Ds are bolted onto some hick’s go kart or bass boat. 

EngineerWithTools > ttyymmnn 10/19/2020 at 16:52

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I wonder if, in a few years’ time, basically all Boeing equipment in service with US domestic airlines will be the ex-MAX. They have already bought a bunch of them, and if the business is going to be depressed for a long while, it makes sense to operate the most efficient, newest,  machine you can.

ttyymmnn > EngineerWithTools 10/19/2020 at 17:01

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it makes sense to operate the most efficient, newest, machine you can.

Which right now is Airbus. Since Boeing punted on the NMA and put their money into the Max fiasco, Airbus has been killing Boeing with the A321. 

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 10/20/2020 at 03:04

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now for Covid to bugger off so we can all feel safe to fly and our borders can reopen so we can travel.